Thursday, 4 September 2014

Ruinstorm 2014 - Tournament Review

On Saturday I ventured forth to the Chaotic Wastes of Leicester to attend the one-day Ruinstorm 40k tournament. It was a 1650pt tournament using 'standard' 7th edition rulebook missions and, as a last-minute (well, with 7 days to go) addition, a simplified version of the Maelstrom missions as secondary objectives.

The list I took was a very spammy Eldar Serpent Spam list, as follows:

Autarch [70] + Shard of Anaris [40]+ jetbike [15] + Banshee mask [5] + lasblaster [5] + power weapon [15]  = 150
5 Fire Dragons   = 110
• Wave Serpent [115] + Holo-fields [15] + twin-linked scatter laser [5] = 135
5 Dire Avengers  = 65
• Wave Serpent [115] + Holo-fields [15] + twin-linked scatter laser [5] + shuriken cannon [10] = 145
5 Dire Avengers  = 65
• Wave Serpent [115] + Holo-fields [15] + twin-linked scatter laser [5] + shuriken cannon [10] = 145
5 Dire Avengers  = 65
• Wave Serpent [115] + Holo-fields [15] + twin-linked bright lance [5] + shuriken cannon [10] = 145
5 Dire Avengers  = 65
• Wave Serpent [115] + Holo-fields [15] + twin-linked bright lance [5] + shuriken cannon [10]= 145
5 Windrider Guardians  = 85
4 Windrider Guardians  = 68
Wraithknight [240] + scatter laser [20] = 260

1,648 points

The reason I 'like' the list (as much as a fluff-player like me can like any filthy spam list) is that the army consists of six units to set up on turn 1, and is very quick and easy to run. I like 'compact' armies; having previously played Tyranids and Imperial Guard, I really appreciate an elite army which plays very quickly!


My round one opponent was Joe Isham, who was using an (almost) pure Deathwing army. It consisted of 4 x 5-man Terminator troops units, a Techmarine, Belial, a 5-man power-armoured Command Squad and an Inquisitor, all arriving in a drop-pod. Another very compact, quick-to-play army then!

Our primary mission was The Scouring, with simplified Maelstrom objectives as a secondary mission. Deployment was Hammer & Anvil. I won the roll and decided to go second (the standard option for Eldar armies with uber-fast scoring Jetbike Troops). Of course, Joe had nothing to set up except three Servo-Skulls, so I had free reign to set up my Wave Serpents and Wraithknight wherever I liked (inside my deployment area, that is). As the board was fairly lightly populated with terrain, this would give Joe ample space to deepstrike in his four Terminator squads and drop-pod. Therefore I split my forces fairly equally, and deployed on the extreme edges of my 'Hammer & Anvil' deployment zone (imagine where a left- and right-back in football operate!). The plan was to tempt Joe to land as far up the board toward my deployment zone as possible, inbetween the two flanks of my army, after which I would race away at maximum speed (scaredy-cat Eldar trick ahoy!) and ten snipe at his foot-slogging forces using my long range guns.

Well, the plan worked perfectly! Joe was very aggressive with his deployment, with all his units deploying either in my deployment zone, or just out of it. As I was going second, I moved 12" with all the Serpents to put some space between he and me, after which a couple when flat out (a further 18") to get them miles away from his Terminators. It would take him 2-3 turns of move/run to get anywhere near. The other Serpents and the Wraithknight then proceeded to unload all their guns into his troops, beginning with the nearest units, to make sure I could not get assaulted.

The game was not as one-sided as it sounds, as Joe did manage to kill the Wraithknight for first blood, and also managed to catch and kill one Serpent, but the bulk of my force had run away to the other end of the table where I stayed, shooting away at his infantry with their 36" Scatter Lasers and Bright Lances and their 60" Serpent Shields.

What really decided the game was focussing on the mission. The primary mission (The Scouring) was always going to be quite easy to achieve, as I could move wherever I liked with my Serpents to claim objectives, and then swoop down late-game with the Jetbikes to grab or contest any others. However, this is now only half the game! The Maelstrom missions also mean you have to score EVERY TURN! The stripped-down Maelstrom missions at this tournament boiled down to either killing a unit, or grabbing one of three numbered objectives. I found it took a lot of concentration to remember, turn by turn, what the mission was 'at that moment', however it was key to my success. By building up points reliably through the game as well as by grabbing 'primary' mission Scoring objectives on the last turn, meant things were always in my grasp.



My second opponent was the mysteriously-named Snooty Fox (aka Chris from Hull!), another very friendly and fun opponent (I was very lucky to play three great, friendly oppenents this weekend). Snooty was running... Eldar with Wave Serpents! That said, he only had three Serpents, which he complemented with a Wraithlord, a Fire Prism, a couple of decent-sized Jetbike squads and some Guardians.
Again, I won the roll for deployment, and let Snooty set up (and go) first. The deployment type was old 5th edition Table Quarters. He set up well protected by buildings, and so afforded himself very good cover saves for the battle to come. I then set up all five Serpents AND the Wraithknight in a very defensive 'blob' behind a large building in my zone. If Snooty had any large blasts, he would be hitting three or four Serpents with each shot, I was so closely packed!

In Snooty's first turn, he cautiously advanced his three Serpents and Wraithlord, and began shooting. Luckily I was obscured for the most part behind my building, and so was able to claim a cover save without needing to Jink. Snooty fired with all his guns... but didn't let off his Serpent Shields! This was pivotal, and he lamented the decision as soon as my first turn arrived, and I shot with EVERYTHING. I treat the Serpent Shields as guns - I don't even pretend that they have any sort of defensive properties. I took out two of Snooty's Serpents on the first turn, leaving him already under-gunned for the rest of the battle. For the remainder of the game, Snooty was always coming from behind, as my Serpent's alpha strike had pretty much crippled his forces. He did manage to kill a couple of my Serpents and take out the Wraithknight*, but I survived pretty much unscathed, whilst I had all-but-wiped his forces off the board.

And so we came to tot up points scored.

I had made sure to grab enough objectives to claim the 'Big Guns Never Tire' primary mission 5-4, thus giving me 4 tournament points (hereafter TP's). Snooty had shaded it on secondary 'Maelstrom' missions, earning him 3TP's. So, I had won! Except... I remembered that Snooty had killed my Wraithknight - a Heavy Support choice. This made it a draw on primaries (worth 0TP's) and so Snooty won by dint of secondary Maelstrom mission points! We had a good chuckle about the result, as the game was very one-sided in my favour, but the result proved otherwise!



My third and final game of the tournament was against Graeme Green, a Tau player and another very friendly opponent. Graeme was in fact my game 3 opponent of last year's Ruinstorm tournament, when his 6th edition Tau blitzed my Tyranids off the board, so it was great to have another bite at the cherry, and this time with an army of comparable power!

The deployment was Pitched Battle. Graeme set up first, and split his Tau forces into two roughly equal forces - to my left was a Riptide, a Skyray, some Fire Warriors and three Broadsides. To my right was a Riptide, a Hammerhead and some more Fire Warriors hiding in a ruin. I decided to 'refuse flank' and set up my entire army in my extreme right-hand corner, thereby staying out of range of his left-hand units. Once I had dealt with the right hand side, my plan was to swing around and 'roll up' his forces on the right hand side.

And so it proved. Graeme went first and opened fire with the forces to my right (directly opposite my forces), but my Serpents and Wraithknight were obscured behind ruins, so gained a cover save without the need to jink, and thus survived largely intact. His left hand forces began the long walk accross to try and get into range. During my first turn I returned fire against his right hand units, successfully destroying his Riptide and Hammerhead. The ability to pump out so many shots from each Wave Serpent, and the fact that the Serpent Shields ignore cover with D6+1 strength 7 shots, made short work of the Tau.

Turn 2 featured more of the same action - Graeme's Tau fired and managed to Stun a couple of Serpents, and then I returned fire and destroyed his other Riptide. After turn 2, the game was largely a forgone conclusion and by turn 5 Graeme was left with a few diminished Fire Warriors and a Broadside or two. We were both knackered, and Graeme had taken enough punishment, so we called it done. After totting up objectives and secondaries, I had won quite comfortably.



After playing in 40k tournaments for some 4-5 years now with 5th Edition Chaos Marines, 6th Edition Tyranids and 6th Edition Imperial Guard, I really enjoyed using a compact, elite army which was quick to play... and of course, quite devestating on the alpha-strike too! Being a fluff-bunny, I've never really used an uber-competitive list before, and so it was nice to go into a game believing I had a fair chance (all I really ask for!) against my opponents. 

During the games themselves, I found it quite hard to keep track of which two Maelstrom missions I was supposed to be going for that turn, so I would strongly recommend to others that a pen and paper (or Maelstrom objective cards) is critical for keeping track; not only tracking which Maelstrom objectives YOU are going for, but also which ones your opponent is going for, and also how many points each player has garnered so far in the game.

On the subject of Maelstrom missions, I found it vitally important to be earning these during the game. With this paricular tournament's scoring method (see below), it was as viable to win by dint of secondary Maelstrom missions and tertiary points as it is to win the Primary Mission:

4 TP's = Primary mission (Scouring / Big Guns / Crusade)
3 TP's = Secondary mission (Maelstrom)
3 TP's = Tertiary mission (First Blood / Linebreaker / Warlord)

At the end of the day, I finished on 21 Tournament Points (from a maximum of 30). The winner of the event got 28TP's. I ended up 13th out of 34, so I was very happy (though exhausted) after my day!

Wednesday, 13 August 2014

Death From Above 1979

Tonight is my second game of errata'd 6th edition (oh, what's that? We're calling it 7th ed? Okay, I'll try and remember that)

After a game last week at 1000 points, this week we're stepping up to 1650. Andy is taking part in an ETC style team event and so wants to try out an Ork list for that. Part of me wanted to be a bit of a jerk and come up with a specific anti-Ork list: lots of Flamers, lots of 2+ saves. "This Whirlwind? I've been using one of those for years!" (could be just the sort of thing that you'll see at such an event to be fair)

However, there is just too much stuff in the new Space Wold codex that I wanted to try out on the table so I've gone with more of an all-comers list:

Wolf Lord, Runic Armour, Wolf Claw, Wolf Helm Of Durfast, Thunderwolf

2+, 4++, re-roll to hit, re-roll to wound in combat, +1 S, +1 T, +1 A, +1 W. Pricy but quick and deadly

3 Thunderwolves, 1 Storm Shield, 1 Power Fist

Kept this unit pretty basic but along with the Thunderlord they should do a lot of damage if they can make it into combat

10 Grey Hunters w/CCW, 2 Melta Guns, Wolf Guard Pack Leader w/Combi-Melta, Drop Pod

10 Grey Hunters w/CCW, 2 Flamers, Wolf Guard Pack Leader w/Combi-Flamer, Drop Pod

10 Grey Hunters w/CCW, 2 Plasma Guns, Plasma Pistol, Wolf Guard Pack Leader w/Combi-Plasma, Drop Pod

The Swiss Army Knife of the army, with a mixture of special weapons they can do a bit of everything

9 Blood Claws, Power Weapon, Flamer, Lukas the Trickster, Drop Pod

12 point Space Marines with Rage and Counter Attack? Count me in

Lone Wolf, Terminator Armour, Twin Wolf Claws

They have ret-conned the ret-conn so we can teleport again. Happy days (mainly because my run rolls for Lone Wolves have always been absolutely awful and this means that I can drop him right into the action)

5 Fenrisian Wolves Since they can score now, these are just a cheap Objective claiming unit

Murderfang, Drop Pod

If Mr Angry Pants can survive a turn of shooting, he'll do some serious damage. However, as Kurtz said, "if is the middle word of life"

Now there are probably some people waiting with baited breath; "come on then Gav" they're saying, "what's the brilliant trick here? Drop the Pods Objective Secured Pods empty so the enemy has to spend 5 turns destroying them while you claim the other Objectives?"

Sorry, to disappoint, but there really is no trick here - the idea of the list is simply to push as many units down your opponent's face as possible. The plan is that 30 Grey Hunters come down, do as much damage as possible and then line up for a Turn 2 charge along with the Thunderwolves.

Hopefully that will be too many targets for the enemy to deal with and so carnage will ensure (NB better blogs than this one would probably use the term "threat vectors" at this point)

Then Murderfang, the Blood Claws and the Lone Wolf arrive to clear up what's left. Looks like a very simple plan on screen, let's see how it actually translates to the battlefield.

Monday, 28 July 2014

Summer Skirmish 2014 - Tournament Report

On Saturday I attended one of my favourite 40k events of the year - Tim King's 500pt Summer Skirmish. This year, due to the apparent lethargy and disinterest of the majority of the 40k tournament scene, only 8 players made the event, but that didn't stop it being a fun day - in fact, the day was very relaxing and enjoyable, so perhaps the disinterest from the 'top-table' players could be a blessing in disguise for the tournament scene, leaving us with a less dominant meta and a more level playing field. Time will tell! 

The day started with the players gathering around Tim King as he built his 500pt Combat Patrol ' on the fly'. He chose mech Guard - specially, a PCS in a Chimera, two infantry squads with Autocannon and Grenade Launchers in Chimeras, a Wyvern... and 5 Rough Riders! The gymkhana, as these latter models quickly became known, were a source of amusement throughout the day. They even blew up a tank at one point! 

The playing field (in the order I played 'em) was as follows: 

Alex - Mech Vet Guard
Swede - Eldar
Adam Calver - 'Grot' Mech Guard
Nick - Space Marines in Rhinos
Tim King - Mech Guard with horsies 
Duncs - Necrons
Graham White - Space Marines in Rhinos
Grazer (me!) - Eldar Serpent Spam (5 Dire Avengers in Serpent, 6 Dark Reapers with Serpent)

My first game was against a relatively new player called Alex, who was using a very nicely painted Mech Vet Guard force - three lots of Veterans in Chimeras, plus a Wyvern. My plan was to stay at arm's reach and to use my Serpents' Scatter Lasers and Serpent Shields to crack open his Chimeras. This done, the Reapers and Avengers (coming on from reserve) then helped to mop up the infantry and secure the three 3-point objectives which (in all games) were arranged across the centre-line of the 2' x 2' board, equidistant between the two players' deployment zones. The plan worked a treat, and my first game ended with an 11-0 victory to me (2 x3 points for objectives, first blood and 4 kill points).

Game two saw me face a local gamer called Swede, who was using an Eldar force of 5 Rangers, a Serpent, a Spiritseer, 3 Windrider Guardians and 3 Dark a Reapers with an Exarch. This game came down to who could kill the other's Wave Serpent(s) first. Both of us used cover to hide our Reapers, but our tactics varied on our use of Serpents. I like to use their mobility to move freely around the table, generally moving 6-12" per turn, picking off targets one by one. Swede instead found a very handy piece of cover behind a ruin, where he stayed stationary the whole game. In the end, my second Serpent proved to be the decisive factor. Whilst one traded shots with Swede's own Serpent, the second roamed the board, largely able to pick off weaker targets (Rangers, Reapers etc) without being threatened. The game ended 16-2 to me once I tabled my opponent. So far - two games, two wins! Uncharted territory for me...

Game three was against Adam Calver, who was in control of a fantastically converted Grot IG army. I've seen this army a few times before - it's the Grot 'rebellion' Guard army (with accompanying homemade glossy comic, no less!) that you may well have seen before. Aidan's army was very similar to my opponent's in game one, though with one major difference - one less unit of Veterans, in exchange for a Forge World Vulture loaded out with Lascannons and Hellstrike missiles. Knowing the flyer had to start in reserve, my plan was simple. This would be a race against time - destroy Adam's Chimeras and Wyvern before his terrifying flyer could arrive! My plan worked, and I managed to wreck the Chimeras on turn 1  and 2, before the Vulture arrived and dominated proceedings! My usual plan with Serpents is to use their twin-linked Scatter Lasers, Shuriken Cannons and Serpent Shields to glance off hull points off flyers, but in this game I really struggled. Adam took out one of my Serpents and then, on turn 5 I parked my other Serpent (importantly, the one belonging to the Dire Avengers) on the central objective, whilst my troops grabbed one or two other objectives. Then, on his turn 5, Adam dropped into hover mode and parked his Vulture right on top of my Serpent, hoping to shoot down onto it. Unfortunately for him, his guns couldn't swivel to point vertically down (7th edition has formalised the +/- 45 degrees vertical span of vehicle weapons)  and so the game ended. Adam thought he had the objective contested, but unfortunately for him he had forgotten that in 7th edition, troop transports have Objective Secured - and so the points were mine! In reality though, those three points weren't critical, and the game ended 10-2 to me.

Game four was against another less experienced player, Nick Pratt, who was using Space Marines (Tactical and Devastator Marines) with Razorbacks armed with Assault Cannons. Unfortunately I got first turn, and my army just seemed tailor made to fight his - my Serpents scrapped his Razorbacks and my Dark Reapers (with their strength 5, AP3 shots) made short work of his Marines. The game only lasted a couple of turns (with a 14-2 victory for me) and so we decided to play again - with each other's armies! With the tables turned, Nick proved successful this time round. In fact, he liked the Eldar so much he decided there and then to build an Eldar army of his own!

With four straight wins under my belt, it was time to face Mr. Tournament himself, Tim King and his Imperial Guard 'Gymkhana of Doom'. Tim set up his three Chimeras and Wyvern tightly packed in a corner behind a hill, where they proved very hard to dig out. The game was cagey, and my shooting was quite poor, and so the last turn hinged around a scrap for The central objective. Tim was very smart, and managed to nick the objective off me, winning 6-5 in the 6th turn.

Next I played Duncs, a good mate and fellow club member at our First Company Veterans gaming club. Duncs is a long-term Necrons player, so he ran an army of Warriors, Wraiths and Immortals. My plan was to stay back, and deny Duncs the opportunity to unleash his fearsome Wraiths, which I knew full well would rip my army apart, given half the chance. After a couple of turns Duncs realised he wouldn't be able to orchestrate a charge, and so he hid them behind a big piece of LoS blocking terrain at the centre of the board. That said, his other units were incredibly hard to shift, and I had to concentrate all my firepower into slowly whittling down his troops - which kept getting back up, almost every time! In the end, Duncs just didn't have the guns to take out my Serpents and the game ended 8-3.

My final regular game was against another mate and club mate, Graham 'Gripper' White. He was running a Marine army very similar to Nick Pratt's, but the game itself was very different, largely due to the very dense 'Space Hulk' style which Gripper was able to hid his Marines in. The game started well for me and I took out his two Razorbacks quite quickly, but then Gripper cleverly hid his Marines under LoS blocking terrain and made me come close with my Serpents in order to see them. As soon as I did, he ran at me, charging with melts bombs and krak grenades, and managed to table me by the end of turn three! The game ended 13-3 to Gripper.

So, after the seven regular games I was alone on five wins, with Adam Calver on four wins and quite a few folks on three wins (I think... I was in shock at this point!). To decide an overall winner, Adam and I played off again to see who would take the tournament trophy.

This final game was another cagey affair, with both of us knowing what each other's armies were capable of. My threats were obviously the two Wave Serpents, whilst Adam's Vulture was his ace-in-the-hole. My advantage was that his flyer wouldn't be on til at least turn 2, so I had to try and eliminate Adam's Chimeras and troops whilst the Vulture was off the board. Like our first game, I managed to wreck his two transports quite easily, but this time he had rolled a Warlord trait which allowed him to outflank a couple of units - specifically, his Veterans. They arrived on turn 2 right next to my Dark Reapers, and made mincemeat of them with their high rate of fire and BS4. Also arriving on turn 2 was the Vulture. It arrived and targeted one of my Serpents but it fluffed it's lines - it's Lascannons and missiles failing to score a single glance or penetrating hit! In my next turn, I pushed one Serpent right onto Adam’s board edge, to prevent his Veterans' Autocannons and Grenade Launchers from being able to hit the Serpent's tender rear.  My other Serpent swivelled on the spot. Both skimmers opened up and, over the course of two turns, managed to down the flyer with twin-linked snapshots. By the end of the game, I had a single Serpent left, whilst Adam had a largely unmolested unit of Veterans in my deployment zone. The game ended up a draw - equal kill points, no objectives for either side, and one secondary objective each (first blood to me, line breaker for Adam). There was only one way to decide a winner of the tournament... FIGHT!

We each placed a single model 7" apart - I chose a Dark Reaper whilst Adam chose a Veteran Sargeant. Adam won the roll for initiative and went first. He fired his Laspistol but my Reaper's 3+ save proved ample. His Sergeant then charged, but my Eldar hit first, sadly failing to cause a wound with his single attack. His Sergeant then hit three times and caused a couple of wounds.  Could I make three 3+ saves? Sadly not, and Adam won the shoot-out. A disappointing end for me, but a very tense - and perfectly fitting - way to end a fun day out like Summer Skirmish!

Tuesday, 8 July 2014

500pt Summer Skirmish - Call for Players!

On 26 July 2014, Tim King's Summer Skirmish is back! This is a 500-point tournament with each game lasting just 40 minutes.
The tournament will take place at Sanctuary Gaming Centre in Sutton-in-Ashfield (full address below):
St' Michaels & all angels church,
St' Michaels street,
Sutton in Ashfield
NG17 4GP
Tickets are £20 and include lunch on the Saturday.
There is quite a set of restrictions to selecting your army list. You can find more information by following the links below:
The event itself is great fun, and allows tou to pit your 500pt army against thirteen different opponents over the two days. There is always a gfreat vibe at the event, and I strongly recommend it to everyone who enjoys fun 40k!

Thursday, 26 June 2014

40k Team Tournament Details

Team Claws & Fists will be attending the 40k 'Allies of Convenience' team tournament on 29-30 ovember 2014 at Sanctuary Games in Sutton-in-Ashfield. The team, and probable armies, are as follows:
Graham - Astra Militarum or Eldar
Young Josh - Daemons
Darren - Grey Knights
Andy - Space Marines (or Orks, if the new codex is good)
More information on the tournament can be found by following the link below:
Players will also need to make themselves familiar with the rules pack (link below) which details army list composition, allies etc.

Summer Skirmish 2014 (26 July)

On 26 July 2014, Tim King's Summer Skirmish is back! This is a 500-point tournament with each game lasting just 40 minutes.
The tournament will take place at Sanctuary Gaming Centre in Sutton-in-Ashfield (full address below):
St' Michaels & all angels church,
St' Michaels street,
Sutton in Ashfield
NG17 4GP
Tickets are £20 and include lunch on the Saturday.
There is quite a set of restrictions to selecting your army list. You can find more information by following the links below:
The event itself is great fun, and allows tou to pit your 500pt army against thirteen different opponents over the two days. There is always a gfreat vibe at the event, and I strongly recommend it to everyone who enjoys fun 40k!

Thursday, 19 June 2014

40k Team Tournament

In November, the UK 40k team tournament is going ahead at Sanctuary Games in Sutton-in-Ashfield (near Mansfield, Notts). After throwing out a request for players to join a team, I'm delighted to say we had nearly a dozen requests! This of course means they'll be three teams coming from the blogosphere.
The first team will be led by Alex ‘From the Fang’ Brown, who runs the most excellent Blog Wars tournament twice annually. His team will consist of gamers from the northern stronghold of Sheffield and the surrounding areas.
The other two teams consist of gamers predominantly from the Nottingham area, most of whom are regulars at the First Company Veterans 40k club night at Warhammer World. After having analysed which armies each player can bring, I have rationalised the seven interested players into the following two teams:
‘Team Claws & Fists’
Graham (me!) – Astra Militarum / Tyranids / Eldar
Young Josh – Daemons
Andy ‘Fudal’ Lane – Space Marines / Tyranids
Darren ‘The Baron’ Grainger – Orks / ???
‘Team Blood Claw’
John ‘Blood Claw’ Holland – Space Marines / Astra Militarum
Daryl Dudey – Eldar / Daemons / Orks
Al Shrive – Tau / Daemons / Tyranids
??? (Tom?)
Just a few words about the rationale between the selection of players for the two teams. Firstly, I have tried to include at least one ‘top tournament’ level player in each team; that is, John Holland in Team Blood Claw, and Andy / Darren in Team Claws & Fists. Secondly, I tried to make sure that there was as little crossover as possible in terms of playable armies for each team – eg, both John and I use Astra Militarum as one of our ‘main’ armies, so it would be unwise for us to both be in a team together as we couldn’t both use our preferred army.
Anyway, that is the plan as it stands at the moment!
The next step is for each team to procure their team ticket. Tickets should be available from this weekend, via the Facebook group set up by Sanctuary Games. Tickets are £80 / £90 per team (ie £20-£23 per player). I will buy the ticket for Team Claws & Fists. John – are you able to coordinate with your team and arrange to get your team’s ticket?
Once we have tickets, the next step will be for each team to begin the process of deciding which armies to each take, list-building and match-up analysis (I’m looking forward to that part!).
John / Daryl / Al – I am quite happy to leave the organisation of your team completely to you! Basically please treat your team as completely your own thing. I hope that will be ok for you guys?  


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