So I've not really posted for a little while because real life has kinda got in the way, course work marking, watching Alfreton get promoted to the conference and falling more deeply in love with King Kenny but I've still been plodding along trying to get ready to use my new wolf list.
The speeders are nearly done and but I am still debating on their merits compared to Scouts.
Both have the same primary role a delivery system for melta those hard to take down vehicles in the enemies army which is something I have difficulty with so scouts or speeders?
Both also have the secondary roll of being able to deal with infantry, the speeders with their heavy flamers and the scouts with their ability to assault.
The speeders merits are easy to see, it can deep strike so they can target land raiders in the middle of the board something that scouts can't do. However it can also scatter out of ideal range or into dangerous terrain which is a risk.
The scouts are more reliable, 66% of the time you will have your choice of board edge to come on but there is the risk that you will not get them on and 100 odd points will spend the game running towards the enemy and possibly never get there. However their one major selling point is that they are capable of assaulting the enemy off of objectives and as readers know my Space Wolf Scouts are capable of real moments of heroism.
I'd be interested in what everyone else thinks.
I wrote a post on the same subject a little while ago and decided that scouts were better. However, we took a speeder to the doubles tournament and it was probably our star player.
ReplyDeleteThat being said I've had plenty of games where it hasn't dome anything. Even if you land on target I always feel like I'm gonna miss with a single melta.
If you do go with the scouts you definitely want a wolf guard with combi and fist.
If forced to choose I'd take the Scouts.
ReplyDeleteMy unit of 5 with a Meltagun and their attached 'Combi-Melta + Wolf Claw' Wolf Guard have been the difference between winning and losing on many occasions. Against gun-lines they're absolutely priceless and against anything else they still have many uses.
Plus (unlike a Speeder) they can't be stun-locked or 'one-shotted' away ;-)
Speeders are best due to their manouverability.
ReplyDeleteForget about the heavy flamer and focus on what they can do with their multi melta.
The heavy flamer is there to be an annoyance if they lose their multi melta and survive until later turns of the game.
As a long time user of Wolf Scouts I would have to say go for Speeders......
ReplyDeleteYup that's rights Speeders, I've grown fond of the little buggers recently. Problem I was finding with Scouts is the slight unreliable nature of the BEL ability and how fragile they are. ( although speeders are as fragile)
I have been using two MM/HF speeders and I get so much more out of them. I never deep strike them any more as again this is as reliable as using BEL with scouts and usually ends up in me being out of position or suffering a mishap.
I tend to deploy my speeders with the bulk of my force and use them as support for my Grey Hunter packs initially providing extra melta and template support. If those pesky Land Raiders full of Assault Termis get too close its nice to have some extra Melta around.
Speaking of which a speeder can also be used to really mess up a LR's movement. Turbo right in front of it and chances are it wont be able to move forward leaving the only option a ram attack. With a 3+ ram save the speeder can easily dodge it leaving the Raider stranded. Mean while the Long Fangs can concentrate on popping the rest of the army.
All in all I'd say give them a try but don't use them as a one shot throw away Melta unit. Preserve them and use them for what they are. A fast close support weapons platform, you will reap the benefits.
Well I use both, and I do love my Wolf Scouts.
ReplyDeleteIf you're going to take scouts, take 2 units or none at all, as taking 2 means that if one messes up the other *Should* take up the slack. And of course put your Wolf Guard in there too.
My wolf scouts have been invaluable against Imperial Guard multiple times.
I'd be much more tempted by Land Speeders than Scouts too (in fact I'll be buying two for my pre-Heresy World Eaters army soon).
ReplyDeleteI see their main advantages being the ability to move very fast (so you can reach anywhere on the board in two turns), plus the fact they can take a multi-melta, with it's much longer range.
There's also much less on the table that can kill a Speeder, compared to the fragile Scouts with their 4+ save. I view Scouts as a one-turn, one-shot weapon, whereas a Speeder should last two or three turns.
G.
Hmm- the Speeders survivability wins it for me. Scouts can assault, yes, but they are only 4+ save, which means that I can use a small unit to handle them- yes they can go to ground, but I still count that as handling them, since they now can't do anything for a turn.
ReplyDeleteOn the other hand, Scouts are cool, and I've never seen Speeders as particularly "Wolfy," so in anything outside of a tourney, then Scouts it is!
I agree with Brad, both in having been bitten by Scouts showing up in the wrong place and also with his points around the tactical flexibility of the Speeder.
ReplyDeleteMy only real question would be, why does it have to be one or the other? Why not both?
I would take both its a very viable option the only reason I don't is because taking speeders free's up my elite slots which allows me to take my tag team of Lone Wolves who bring so much more to the table.
ReplyDeleteA lot of blogs like to quote Sun Tzu but I think this is a good time to quote Bruce Lee - "We need emotional content"
ReplyDeleteI like Speeders but I don't love them. I struggle to think of a time where they've done something spectacular. The Scouts on the other hand have had more than their fair share of memorable moments.
To mix a metaphor, the Speeders are boringly effective, the Makelele of the 40K world, always getting 6/7 out of 10. The Scouts are Le Tissier. They might have a couple of games where they are anonymous but then, out of the blue they have their champagne moment. Which is better? I guess it depends on the rest of the list. Just like in football, some teams need Makelele and some need Le Tissier...
I've lost as tournament game because of scouts on the top table. And I've won a tournament game because of speeders earlier that day contesting an objective.
ReplyDeleteTake both, that's what I'm doing for an upcoming tournament this summer, they are both good and have their uses.
Take a look over here http://dissentingdice.blogspot.com/2011/04/tourney-season-wgc.html
Also, I know it is 2000, and you people play 1500. But I think the same coverage and skills across multiple FOC charts is just a good concept.
I thought that grey hunters in rhinos was the melta delivery system of SW (but then again I am don't know much about SW). Maybe speeders won't be such a reliable Melta platform if you keep them in reserves for deep striking since they might be delayed or scatter widely. Maybe better start on the board and move flat out to close in with enemy vehicles? At least it will be a huge fire magnet.
ReplyDeleteOn the other hand Scouts can be a great detterent to your opponent castling his vehicles near the table edges. It will force him to deploy more to the center which is what you want since most of your other units will want to be in the midfield.
Speeders.
ReplyDeleteI commented on From the Fang's blog (IIRC) about this and the Scouts are too random to be of use on a regular basis. I've noticed they don't achieve very much against the better players whereas the Speeders are more reliable at dropping by and suicide-popping tanks.
They can't be tied down in combat but they have the speed to tag the tank and fly off a turn later or else cockblock whatever pops out.
I've found the Scouts are too fragile to last in combat for long and I've given them a WG with CombiMelta and Wolf Claw so he gets to swing before the rest of the unit with their pitiful 4+ saves are torn apart.
Its mainly the fact that when they Deep Strike or move on from the board the Speeders are more likely to get to where they can contribute whereas the Scout's load-out is short-ranged and they're confined to a board edge (a randomised one) when they arrive by OBELing.