This post comes about from a discussion on bolter&chainsword which can be found here.
To cut a long story short, a poster said that his opponent had told him that he could put an enemy unit in dangerous and difficult terrain over 18' even though he couldn't actually wound his opponents due to the FAQ.
Q. Does Murderous Hurricane require the power to hit or
wound its target to affect them? (p37)
A. No, a targeted unit is affected by Murderous Hurricane
even if the power fails to hit or wound.
and followed by the following rule from the rule book
Per page 17 in the BRB: "If a target is beyond the maximum range, it misses automatically. This is why you have to choose your target before measuring for range."
Now over the past couple of days I have been thinking about how to stop this use because I refuse to believe that that is what GW intended and yet I cannot so I put it to you the claws and fists readers.
It is a psychic shooting attack. It has an effective range. Plain and simple. Anyone else attemtpting to use something different is not following the rules for shooting attacks.
ReplyDeletebut unless you can produce rules that actually countermands this then I think someone could lawyer it to work like this.
ReplyDeleteI certainly agree with you BUT the problem is that to win the argument you really have to point to the entry in the rule book and the entry in the rule book and FAQ is written as I've said.
Just remember that the table ain't wider than you can reach to the other side and slap anyone trying to pull something like that.
ReplyDeleteOr simply refuse to play that person again, and tell others about him. He will soon come around once he figures out he's persona non grata. If he leaves, doesn't sound like it's a great loss.
I hate when somebody intentionally misconstrues (or flat out ignores, in the case of the range limitation here) rules just so that they can have a bit more benefit in a game.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure you'll find an adequate rule to refute it outright, but you might be able to tweak what you've already quoted to make a pretty decent argument:
1) You must roll to hit in order to determine whether you hit or not - successful rolls 'hit," unsuccessful rolls "fail to hit".
2) A ranged attack that is found to be out of range "misses automatically." No dice are rolled, and thus no "fail to hit" results are possible.
3) When this jerk points out that you're arguing with logic (zomg!) rather than a page in a book, counter by demanding he point out where in the book "misses" and "fails to hit" are irrefutably equated to each other. It seems this guy's entire argument is based around forcing others to find rulings that don't exist to counter what he wants to do; instead, force him to find a ruling that doesn't exist in order to allow him to do it.
4) If he finds it, punch him in the mouth* and never play him again.
*Disclaimer - Violence is never actually the answer. But in this case, maybe.
It's an illegitmate target in the first place that cannot be targeted due to the range restriction in place on the power. If found to be out of range it doesn't miss, the power simply cannot reach the unit...which translates to automatically missing...not because the Rune Priest didn't qute hit the target, but because his psychic ability with this power is limited to a certain area of effect..hence it having a range.
ReplyDeleteRemember, its a psychic shooting attack...
For example, I target a unit with my Splinter Cannons and find that the unit is out of range. The range is represented by a distance in inches...this represents the force/mass/velocity shit of the weapon,...it simply cannot push the projectile far enough to deliver the force to kill.
The psychic power can only be 'projected'/'called down'/whatever in a certain distance around the Rune Priest...he of course, lacks the psychic ability (read: force from his weapon) to affect the entire world (read: game table)
This is the way it works.
And for what it is worth, the 40k system is a permissive rules set, you must be able to demonstrate that you CAN do something, not find evidence that you CANNOT merely by a rule not covering a loop hole.
Plus, if anyone did this to me, I'd smack them in there dirty mouths. Like I give a fuck.
I've seen this crop up a few times before on Whineseer and Space Wolves Grey (I think it was Killswitch pulled this off first at the old style UKGT). I'm in the 18" camp: as the power will automatically miss anything beyond its range the effects won't carry over either.
ReplyDeleteI've never played with RAW. I doubt a TO would allow it (99% of the time) despite the odd justification.
All I can suggest is to check ahead with your opponent/judge so you don't get spat at during your game(s).