So, next weekend is Open War and last weekend was the deadline for entering lists. Since it's Tyranid "Week", I've decided to post a thought experiment - what would I take if I was going to take 'nids? Now, I'm going to give myself two limitations;
a) No Special Characters
This is an Open War regulation since for some reason the people running it don't like special characters. So, no Doom and no Swarmlord. Sad Panda.
b) Only take units for which there are models
This is my own rule. I'm not that good a modeller, so I'm restricting myself to just units that have official GW models. Yes, this means no Tervigon but, look on the bright side, I can take Pyrovores! Oh...
I've talked before about my preferred Tyranid list just being full of little bugs but clearly that's not going to be competitive in the slightest. So, I'm going to try and come up with a list that has some small bugs and some bigger bugs with the intention of giving an opponent some tough decisions about what to shoot first. I'm also going to ignore Graham's advice about not just rushing forward. I'm going to forgo shooting with the intention of getting forward as fast as possible with the hope that I have too many wounds to be dealt with before I can get into combat. Now, this will make the army a bit of a rock/paper/scissors army since against certain shooty builds my lack of any suppression fire will really hurt me. It should be a fun list to play though, and I'm hoping that it will really have a proper Tyranid flavour - can you stop the bugs before they get you?
First up, what would we like to take? Let's ignore the 1750 point limit and brainstorm what I'd like to see in the list. A Hive Tyrant with Hive Commander and a couple of Guard. A couple of Lictors or some Ymgarl Genestealers so I can have something jump out at the enemy. A Venomthrope to give some cover to my main advance. A couple of units of Genestealers that can infiltrate and be my first wave. Some Hormagaunts and Raveners as a really fast second wave to support the 'stealers. Two Trygons and a unit of two Carnifexes as a battering ram (at this point, I'd like to point out that I've not seen the 4th edition Tyranid codex so I don't know how cheap Carnifexes used to be but I used them last week and I rather enjoyed it)
Hmm, all that comes to over 2000 points. D'oh!
Okay, so let's ditch the Raveners, the Lictos and the Carnifexes and see what we've got...
Hive Tyrant, Hive Commander
2 Tyrant Guard
Venomthrope
30 Hormagaunts, Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs
12 Genestealers
12 Genestealers
10 Termagants
Trygon
Trygon
I've gone for a big unit of tooled-up Hormagaunts as I know they're going to take casualties on the way in but I still want them to hit hard when they get there. The Termagants are there to be kept in reserve so that they can walk on and claim an objective late in the game.
All that come to 1,456. After seeing a Venomthrope get frakked by a scattering Vindicator shot last week, I'm tempted to a take a second as back-up. I'd also like to take a third Trygon. That give me enough points to take a couple more Genestealers and give the Hive Tyrant Adrenal Glands. So, the list in full:
HQ
Hive Tyrant, Hive Commander, Adrenal Glands
2 Tyrant Guard
Elites
Venomthrope
Venomthrope
Troops
30 Hormagaunts, Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs
13 Genestealers
13 Genestealers
10 Termagants
Heavy Support
Trygon
Trygon
Trygon
So, it's quite an unsubtle list - set up as far forward as possible and then run at the enemy as fast as possible. However, with the Genestealers ability to infiltrate and Hive Commander allowing a unit to outflank, it give some interesting deployment options. Plus with the Trygons being able to start on the board or deep striking, it can be more of a scalpel and less a blunt instrument. I think a lot of the choices would depend on going 1st/2nd, opponent and mission but it's always good to have the options.
So, what do you think? Does it have a chance or would it be shot to pieces before it even arrived?
Hi mate, interesting list! The one thing you'll struggle with in my experience will be actually finding anything your bug infantry can assault. As you say, Tyranids are a paper, scissors, stone army - and the army you'll struggle against most will be Marines (of any flavour). Whilst tanks remain so hard in 5th edition to break open, and with so little in the Tyranid force suited to cracking open tanks (including transports) it makes games a real chore.
ReplyDeleteYou only has one synapse. :(
ReplyDeleteI'm also trying to eschew an all-out shooty list, but I realise I can't assault if I can't get troops out of transports.
I like tyrants, but with Hive Commander and some guard you're looking at well over 300 points. That's a lot of points for a deathstar that's slow has no ranged support.
I'm not sure Hive commander is really worth the points. I take it the 3 trygons would deep-strike, the genestealers and the horms out-flank and the termagants attempt to come on late onto your objective. So... the 300 point tyrant unit walks on your table edge, doesn't reach combat and is almost completely wasted. Your venomthropes come on your table edge... and don't really help. Everything else is out of synapse and will likely be led around the table.
If you plan to all walk in your table edge, you won't reach combat. If you come in through the Trygons tunnels you're coming in very piecemeal and almost certainly die.
That leads me to say, you're probably better off always starting on the table, so Hive commander is a bit of a waste IMO. I'd personally not take the tyrant at all and just make a warrior prime from warrior and ravener kits, but that's outside of your limitations.
Trygons - should run adrenal glands.
Genestealers - try and find the points for toxin sacs or bigger units.
You've ditched Raveners, carnifex, ymgarls and lictors. Out of interest, why? I'm not saying it's wrong, just wondering why you chose those units?
Raveners are really good IMO. Beasts are the fastest units we have and if people don't realise that, the 24" potential assault range is very useful. Being T4 and non-EW is a bind, but if your opponent fires str8 weapons at them, they're not going into trygons or tyrants. Your opponent already has enough gribblies to deal with, so the decision to shoot them is not an easy one.
Carnifex - as dakkafex they're good at shooting light tanks and are still more than happy to assault them and their contents. As a 2 x scytal beast, they'll hit fast transports and almost certainly damage them (5 attacks with re-rolls). Both provide good options and 2 come in at the same price as your tyrant deathstar.
Lictors - a great, fun, disruption unit. Deathleaper is a great utility unit, even if he's a bit pricey.
Ymgarls - operate perfectly in this list. You NEED to stop high str shooting and these guys are your best option. Assaulting long fangs on the turn they arrive is invaluable. Even more useful if you stick with Hive Commander.
Anyway.. nice to see somebody running an assault based list and i wish you all the best and I'll be back to hear how you get along.
To be honest, I wouldn't be that worried about Marine vehicles since S6+2D6 usually makes short work of Rear Armour 10, especially with re-rolls to hit from Scything Talons. Blood Angels would be more difficult with their Fast vehicles but I'd be more worried about Eldar/Dark Eldar since I don't think you'd ever catch the things!
ReplyDeleteI admit the list is a bit of a bodge to be honest. My original plan was to have an MC heavy part and a "disruption part" which might have worked, but I needed some troops! Then the idea became; line everything up as far forward as possible and charge (subtle plan, I know) However, I still wanted the option of different deployment options, hence the Hive Commander. Since some of the Open War missions are a bit ker-azy, this could be useful.
ReplyDeleteI agree the Tyrant is a huge point-sink tho and the lack of synapse is a concern (especially since a well placed unit or two could force the entire army to rage in the wrong direction)
I'd like to try this list out but I can already see myself tweaking it with a Prime/Carnifex unit in place of the Tyrant and a Trygon and ditching the Hormagaunts for more Genestealers and a small unit of Ymgarls...