Last Thursday I got tabled twice but I was much happier after the second game as I could have actually won it. It all came down to one combat between 15 Orks and 8 Grey Hunters. I would have made myself favourite to win that combat but with the power of the Wolf Standard, my Orks got cut down left right and centre so by the time I got to strike I didn't have enough Boyz to do enough damage to win. I really started to see why Andy recommends Shoota Boyz since you get cause more wounds before charging. The worst thing is that I could probably have charged my Warboss into the same combat instead of into the Long Fangs. That would have tipped it greatly in my favour.
Other than that I was far too aggressive in this game especially with my footslogging squad. I could have hidden them in their corner and claimed a draw. Instead I thought that they could shrug off fire and get to those 5 surviving Grey Hunters. Typical Ork behaviour I suppose.
The other thing I did wrong was forget the majority toughness rule. When Mick fired his Grey Hunters at my Bikers I assumed he needed 5s to wound. However, the Warboss is T5 base so T6 on his bike. With only two guys in the squad the majority toughness becomes 6. Hence it should have been 6s to wound. Obviously, if they'd survived that they would have been shot by the Long Fangs too but a couple of lucky Cover Saves and they'd have been able to get into the Hunters.
All in all, I don't think this list is as bad as two tablings makes it out to be. I've been really unlucky coming up against two Wolf lists with 2 Long Fang packs in each. It did make me think that I could do with some long range firepower but I think I'm going to stick with the list again this week. When you're learning an army it's very likely that you'll lose a lot of games. The only way around that is to keep playing and keep learning. Here's to another tough lesson this week...
Personally I like shootas for big walking squads, and sluggas for trukk-borne squads. They both have their advantages - shootas get more shots on the way in, but more potential to shoot yourself out of charge range if it's close, sluggas better if need the waaaghh move to make contact, shootas can sit on an objective/in cover and still reach out and touch someone/affect the battle, sluggas better if combat goes on multiple rounds, and so on and so on.
ReplyDeleteI thought exactly the same thing and it's probably a bit hasty to change my mind on the basis of two games. The ability to shoot guys before they kill you in combat feels too good to pass up. Less of them to kill you means more of you to kill them back when it's your turn to strike :-D
ReplyDeleteI ran the numbers on 20 Shoota Boyz firing at MEQ and you'll kill 2-3 before the charge. The key is making sure that you can still get into combat regardless of which 3 Marines are removed. And trying to keep all 20 Boyz alive!
I think in the club challenge the Shoota Boyz are going to be the best bet since it's only 1000 points so there's not a great deal of shooting in the list. At higher points values where Lootas can thin out enemy units then I think that the Slugga Boyz would be the go to guys.
Having said all that, I've played a grand total of three games with the Orks so I'm about as far away from an expert as you can get. I'll try a few more test games with both units and see how they go...
Keep in mind that sometimes it's risky to shot before charging (especially again SM with Combat Tactics) because the enemy unit might fail their Morale check and fall back thus making you unable to charge.
ReplyDeleteCombat Tactics was always one of my initial concerns. However there don't seem to be many Vanilla Marine players around at the minute. The decision of whether to shoot before charging would be dependent on number of Boyz left and number of Marines. If I had 20 vs 10, I'd be tempted to shoot since it's unlikey that you'll kill the 3 required for the Leadership test.
ReplyDeleteI think what really did me on Thursday were those Space Wolves with their 3 attacks on the Counter Attack. I think that I'd shoot them regardless of numbers!
Good luck learning Orks. They're a great army and fun to play as and against.
ReplyDeleteSpace Wolves are a tough match up for Orks. Everything having counter attack, typically a mark of the wulfen guy and just the standard combat ability of them, it's rough. I'm not sure what style you're playing, sounds hybrid? But to bust down a full Grey Hunter squad, for example, you really need to get stuck in with 20+ Boyz and have a power klaw for cleanup. Anything less and you'll almost surely get smoked. In general I try and isolate their units and take them out one at a time.
I am enjoying playing them even though my record is P3 L3, tabled twice.
ReplyDeleteIt is a hybrid list because of the rules of the competition (only one AV14 vehicle allowed), it would probably be a dual Battlewagon list otherwise. I'm going to make a couple of tweaks for tomorrow but it will generally be the same list. Hopefully I won't get beaten quite as badly this week :-)