After my game on Thursday I'm pretty settled on taking the Marines to Open War next month, in fact I might just see the year out with them and take them to the Freebootaz Open in November as well. Next year will be the year of a new Tournament Army, what that is remains to be seen but for now my experiments with the Blood Angels are on the recreational front only!This all links back to something I said a while ago, which I probably only paid-lip service to before and that was that you need to know your army to do well with it in a tournament. I think back to my hasty decision to take Blood Angels to the Warp Storm tournament earlier this year which was clearly a mistake because I didn't really know what I was doing with them. Some lucky results on the second day pulled me off the bottom of the table but it was not a good showing by a long stretch!
So back to the matter in hand, Open War 14 and Dorn's Lament. My game with Gav on Thursday gave me a bit of confidence back in my good old vanilla Marines but a conversation in the car park afterwards highlighted some room for improvement in the list. As it stands the list has a good amount of anti-armour capability and an answer to Monstrous Creatures and Death-Star units but what it probably cannot cope with is a Horde list. My usual counter to this would be a Thunderfire Cannon – relatively cheap, cover ignoring and devastating to massed troops; however It does have it's limitations being easy to kill, totally static and not much good against heavily mechanised lists.
So in this case I'm going to try an Ironclad in a Pod, not many horde units will have an answer for armour 13 so it will be able to tie up a large unit, possibly for the whole game allowing my other shooty elements, most notably the Typhoons, to focus on other threats, massed or otherwise. Not only is it useful for tying up scary looking horde units but it is also a major threat to vehicles and will be a priority target in most games which will give the rest of my army some room to manouvre relatively unmolested. Perhaps it's not the best solution to a Horde Army but I think I can make it work and it's got some flexibility to it.
So what's being dropped to get the Ironclad in? Well I know it's a bit harsh, particularly as they have done good things for me in the past but I'm dropping the Sternies. Replacing them with an Ironclad will leave me with some spare points and I have the perfect way to spend them. All of the Open War missions rely heavily on Troop choices being in position at the end of the game so I'm adding a 5 man Scout Squad and a Landspeeder Storm, the will hang out off the board and zoom in to contest or capture an objective later on in the game … well that's the plan anyway!
After the shuffle, here's the new list:
HQ
Librarian
Null Zone, The Avenger
ELITE
Assamut Terminator Squad
(5) Thunderhammer & Stormshield; Land Raider Crusader, Extra Armour, Multi Melta
Ironclad Dreadnought
Meltagun, Heavy Flamer; Drop Pod
Dreadnought
2x Twin-linked Autocannons
TROOP
Tactical Squad
(10) Meltagun, Missile Launcher, Sgt w. Power Fist; Razorback w. Lascannon & Twin-Linked Plasmagun
Tactical Squad
(10)Plasma Gun, Missile Launcher, Sgt w. Bolt Pistol & Chainsword; Razorback w. Lascannon & Twin-Linked Plasmagun
Scout Squad
(5) 4x Combat Blades, Sgt w. Power Fist
FAST ATTACK
Land Speeder Storm
Heavy Flamer
Land Speeder
Typhoon Missile Launcher, Heavy Bolter
Land Speeder
Typhoon Missile Launcher, Heavy Bolter
******
As an alternative to the Scouts and Storm, how about the following unit inspired by a recent post by Kirby:
Scout Bikers
(4) 3x Astartes Grenade Launcher, Cluster Mines, Sgt w. Power Fist
T5 "tar-pit" vs certain units, 1st turn vehicle popping capability, reasonable anti-troop utility, cluster mines reduce the attractiveness of cover for my opponent. A fun unit with some serious utility, worth considering?
******
There it is, what do you think of my horde deterrent Dreadnought? Are the fast scouts going to be worthwhile in their role as pure scoring units? Does this seem a relatively well balanced list? How can I tweak it for the Freebootaz Open where named & unique characters are allowed?
Vanilla Ice!!! My eyes!!! Someone bring the eye bleach fast!!!
ReplyDeleteOk sorry about that but the picture took me by surprise.
About the Ironclad, I don't get how it will help against horde units. Against Orks you'll come against plenty of Power Klaw that will probably take it out in 2-3 assault phases. Not sure about nids but I guess they have enough fast MC to commit in killing it if it ties a large mob of Gaunts but I could be wrong here.
Against most other armies you probably won't be able to deepstrike it anywhere near the army due to the plentiful meltaguns you find on the gaming tables these days.
Can scout bikers outflank?
Rest of the list seems solid. Any reason you are taking a crusader over a normal LR?
The thing with the Ironclad is, could he actually take out 30 Boyz before the end of the game? Those Boyz will still be scoring in the first two missions so you need the ability to take them out. Plus, dropping him in you're just asking to de hit by a Deffrolla.
ReplyDeletePersonally I prefer the Sternguard. Lascannons to deal with all of the Razorback spam and then 30" Bolters to take care of hordes. Plus you've got wound on 2+ rounds for MCs (like Vanilla Ice ba-dum-tish)
Well, my thinking with the Ironclad was more along the lines of tying up a squad in close combat for a turn or two, Fragmenting a Horde army is crucial to being able to take them out a wave at a time. Even better if he causes a battlewagon to turn to ram him as it will present side armour to my gunline.
ReplyDeleteHowever, I take the point that it's not really optimal and I think the Scout Bikes could be a lot of fun, Cluster Mines will no doubt hurt a foot-slogging Horde army and the Astartes Grenade Launchers will put some hurt on massed units and light armour alike. Infiltrate and Scout will alow me to get them where I want them on turn 1.
I guess the question is then, do I drop the Scouts and the Storm in favour of putting a small Sternguard unit back in?
I think the list is lacking somehow in long range heavy anti tank weapons. Maybe a small Sternguard unit with a couple of lascannon would be fitting then?
ReplyDeleteHere'a the reworked list then:
ReplyDeleteHQ
Librarian
Null Zone, The Avenger
ELITE
Assamut Terminator Squad
(5) Thunderhammer & Stormshield; Land Raider Crusader, Extra Armour, Multi Melta
Sternguard Squad
(5) 2x Lascannon; Razorback.
Dreadnought
2x Twin-linked Autocannons
TROOP
Tactical Squad
(10) Meltagun, Missile Launcher, Sgt w. Power Fist; Razorback w. Lascannon & Twin-Linked Plasmagun
Tactical Squad
(10)Plasma Gun, Missile Launcher, Sgt w. Bolt Pistol & Chainsword; Razorback w. Lascannon & Twin-Linked Plasmagun
FAST ATTACK
Scout Bikers
(4) 3x Astartes Grenade Launchers, Sgt. w. Combi-Melta
Land Speeder
Typhoon Missile Launcher, Heavy Bolter
Land Speeder
Typhoon Missile Launcher, Heavy Bolter
Wouldn't it be better to take a Rhino for the Sterns? I mean I've seen a lot of people just putting them inside and then firing the 2 lascannon out of the slits. Problem is if the vehicle get stunned or shacken they won't be able to shoot out of it (neither disembark and shoot since they are heavy weapons). Are you planning on placing them inside terrain then?
ReplyDeleteFor the LR I am thinking of this. First couple of turns you will be moving at full speed most of the time to unload the termies so it's irrelevant which type you have. After that you can stay still and fire with all of the weapons for the rest of the game unless you think you are going to get charged by something nasty and have to move away (usually more than 6'' so you get hit on a "6").